there is no such thing as Free Will...

[Buckminster Fuller]

There is no such thing as not free will.

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[SHATOUSHKA]

hmmmmm.....

expand?

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy

[Buckminster Fuller]

free will or no free will is a false dichotomy, it can not exist and it can not , not exist because it is not really the issue, the issue is origination, and origination has been observed in quantum events, which have been shown to occure with in the human brain.

To explain quantum events to those who are unfamilliar (and to do so in an over simplistic manner), first there is nothing, and chaos, and lack of identity or value, or substance, then all of the sudden BOOM! a unique Idea, substance, concept or some other such morsel of information entirley unique in the universe, and the parent to a unique set of reprecussions leading waaaaaaaaay down the line to happy things like universes, life consciousness etc.
Free will is a mis enterpretation at a distance of somthing which is much vaster then we even can see from our spatiotemporal location, it is the proverbial tip of the iceberg, and a mis enterpretation of the tip at that. Furthermore it can not be a case of no free will, because that would lead us to believe that we absolutly lack any of the components which make up free will, and since the false concept of free will and the factual concept of original quantum events shair a meager few pieces, and elements that can not be the case.

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[Mr. Robin]

Lets keep this one exceedingly simple

1) free will is your right to choose!
2) the illusion is that you can have what you choose, because, just because you choose it, doesn't mean you can have it! (in case of doubt, see #1))
3) therefore, free will is that ability to choose, but it is NOT the power to enforce the chioce!.....simple as dat!

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Buckminster Fuller:
There is no such thing as not free will.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure there is. When the doctor taps your knee in just the right place, and it springs forward like a rubber band.

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Alex

[Buckminster Fuller]

I think you all blindly missed my point.

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[SHATOUSHKA]

i haven't.

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~~share some greased tea with me~~
General Philosophy

[Mr. Robin]

Hey, B.F., (although I don't believe taking the name of a famous person really does anything other then LESSEN my perception of you) You state that there is no such thing as NOT free will, try to stop breathing, use your will 'power' to demonstrate that your free will is capable, cause I can assure you, It is NOT......free will!

Tan Q, for dee time

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Ignorance may be bliss, maybe that's why I'm such a happy guy!

[Buckminster Fuller]

Shatouska,
I know you got it, I shouldnt have said "all".


And now for chachi here,
Ok Chachi,
go do some reading on quantum events already will ya!? And no it's not my job to run the search for you and post the link, what do I look like your mommy? if you dont want to do it because you are too lazy, and you want to remain uninformed thats fine, but dont expect me to address any of your posts in the future.

Let me reiterate although I sense I am conversing with a unwavering determinist ( :P *makes rasberry sound* ) ; Free will (in it's intirety which encludes all it's pieces) is not the case (all it's pieces can not absolutly be said to be the case) and neither is Not free will (in it's totality with *Not* all it's pieces, because it can not be said that none of it's pieces are the case) some are partialy the case and some are not. I will not subject myself to your stagnant polorization of thought, HA! so there!

One more thing Boy wonder, Bat Man doesnt like being called B.M. and I dont like being called B.F. capice?

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[This message has been edited by Buckminster Fuller (edited October 15, 2001).]

[doodoo]

Who are you Buckminster? What are you? What is that you have and makes me tremble when words come out of your mind?

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Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers!